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NOTE: I want to thank my debate partner Yale Law Professor Cristina Rodriquez and our gracious host Catherine Cushenberry for an excellent debate on the constitutionality of birthright citizenship and of President Trump’s executive order. Check it out, and be sure to follow “The Disagreement”! — RDM
by Rod D. Martin, Cristina Rodriguez, and Catherine Cushenberry
May 15, 2025
The Supreme Court today heard oral arguments on President Trump’s executive order regarding birthright citizenship.
I recently debated Yale Law Professor Cristina Rodriguez on this issue: the policy debate, the precise meaning of the 14th Amendment, and the applicable case law.
Oh, and if you prefer a concise written argument to an hour-long debate, here’s my my Deep Dive on the issue, “The Case Against Birthright Citizenship”.
Cristina Rodríguez is the Leighton Homer Surbeck Professor of Law at Yale Law School. In 2021, she was appointed by President Biden to co-chair the Commission on the Supreme Court of the United States. Her recent book is called The President and Immigration Law. She’s also the co-host of the new podcast Unsettled: Immigration in Turbulent Times.
Rod D. Martin is Founder and CEO of Martin Capital and The Rod Martin Report. As a tech entrepreneur and venture capitalist, Rod was previously an advisor to Peter Thiel. Rod also served as policy director to Mike Huckabee, the former Governor of Arkansas.
In This Episode
02:47 - Legal Foundations of Birthright Citizenship
04:20 - Debating the 14th Amendment
10:01 - Temporary vs. Permanent Residency
12:16 - “Gaming the System”
21:56 - Policy Implications + Immigration
32:06 - The Costs and Consequences of Changing Birthright Citizenship
35:59 - Historical Context and International Comparisons
38:33 - Moral and Policy Arguments on Immigration
57:38 - Steelman
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