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She Speaks Truth's avatar

The generational labels are dumb. Everyone born in the late 50s-early 60s fits your description of growing up with paper and adapting to digital. Just about every boomer grew up outside, drinking from water hoses, riding bikes around the neighborhood without helicopter parents…

Rod D. Martin's avatar

With respect, I'm an Xer with Boomer parents and Boomer employees, and I can tell you, our experience -- even of the things you just described -- was different.

Having said that, we've had the joy of listening to Boomers tell us how dumb we are our whole lives. It's always been so very endearing. Mitigated, fortunately, by all the neglect.

Steve's avatar

Being a REAL Boomer (I can answer the question "Where Were You In 62?" I've lived in a number of Golden Ages. The 50, late 60's, the 80's, ALL Golden Ages where all was sunshine an lolliops. Well Not Really. I can image 20-30 years from now people talking about The Trump Golden Age.

Although in the (late) 50's & 60's We had Better Music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fowldx4hRtI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixhkdO_IdU

Rod D. Martin's avatar

Obviously I think the 1980s were the highpoint of human civilization, particularly with regard to music (and Presidents), but I certainly can't begrudge you the 50s and 60s. What was remarkable was when I first caught my daughter listening to 70s music (an abomination!) on her then-new iPod. I asked how she even knew Bread and ABBA existed. But the answer should have been obvious. She wasn't getting her musical tastes from the radio (what's that?). She was getting them from Napster, Limewire, and the iTunes Store, where literally everything in the world from all of time was available all at once.

And therein lies an entire shared cultural experience they'll never know. Not that ours is necessarily better. But it's distinct, and it was among the things that shaped us.

Of course, her father was at that moment helping launch PayPal. We Xers created a pretty large part of the world they live in. Elon's about to create the next two world's they're going to live in.

The Trump Golden Age (most of which will take place after Trump, sadly) is going to surpass everything. That's part of why.

Doubting T.'s avatar

You caught my attention first by your article explaining the war strategy created by rockets that can launch, land and relaunch ad infinitum, and I have enjoyed your writing and speaking spots ever since as I try find time working and raising a family of 5. As a child from 1967 I share the core views of your guest essayist esp his song of the time's zietgiest - and kudos to you for replying to your commenters. A q though, what 2 projects of Elon do you reference, robots and the Mars population? And are you as negative about the spacex IPO as others seem be?

Rod D. Martin's avatar

I think the SpaceX IPO is going to be incredible. In 25 years, everyone is going to wish they'd bought twice as much as they did, no matter how much they bought. It will be like Walmart and Apple had a baby. It will be as if you could have bought stock in the Spanish Empire in 1491.

But what I meant by "worlds" was not "projects". I meant he's literally about to create the first Lunar and Martian cities, two whole new worlds into which humanity will expand. And it's going to seem slow, like the development of airplanes in the 20s and 30s seemed slow. And then all of a sudden, it's going to amaze the world. Remember: there were only 66 years between Kitty Hawk and walking on the Moon. Or maybe better analogies: less than 20 years between single-seat biplanes and Pearl Harbor, less than 6 years between that and breaking the sound barrier, just 5 more years to the B-52s we still fly, just 5 more years to satellites in orbit, and only 12 more years to the 747 and walking on the Moon.

Once these things get rolling, the world starts changing very fast. We're in the ramp-up now.

She Speaks Truth's avatar

Didn't call anyone dumb. Called the labels dumb. And they are, literally, in that they have very little to say. The distinctions they pretend to provide are meaningless to those at the beginning or end of these cohorts. And they tend to be divisive; how is that good? How precisely is a gen X experience of freely riding bikes and drinking from water hoses different? Also, seems like your boomer parents and employees would have a better grasp of how it was different, since they existed during both times lol. But I take exception to his tone in this article, which I'd describe as just a wee bit arrogantly ignorant. "We're the generation that grew up with paper and adapted to digital." Sure, your generation did that, but it wasn't the first, and how myopic are you to think that? Good grief, my 90-year-old mom (obviously a pre-boomer) grew up with paper and ordered an Uber on her phone with aplomb. His focus on these labels weakens his arguments. Further, disparaging groups of people by their age is just as wrong as disparaging groups of people by their skin color. It purposely ignores individuals as uniquely made in the image of God.

Rod D. Martin's avatar

Again with respect, I think it would be silly to suggest that there are no generational differences, as evidenced by the radical differences between Boomers in 1968 and their parents. Every age group parents in reaction to their own parents, and that produces a very predictable difference in the next generation...and how that generation parents their own kids.

This is actually a pretty fascinating field of study. I would recommend my (Boomer) friend Neil Howe's most recent book, "The Fourth Turning Is Here", which covers this subject -- and why it matters -- exceptionally well.

https://www.rodmartin.org/p/my-10-favorite-books-of-2024

Or if you prefer, you can read my own "The Fire This Time":

https://www.rodmartin.org/p/the-fire-this-time-2nd-excerpt-from

She Speaks Truth's avatar

Agree that it would be silly to not see generational differences, and your example is a good example. Yes, quite a few young people (not all) in 1968 began seeing the world differently than their parents viewed it. But what were the 4-year-olds doing in 1968, though? Because now they're grouped in with the boomers. Agreed that every age group reacts to its parents, but that's an ongoing never-ending process. Any attempt at breaking a group of them off can only be about half right, because the ones on either end are just as likely to share similarities with people in the other directions, whatever random group label is assigned. There is no "age group" you can label that will stay static, other than maybe all the people who are 25 today, but some of them will join the 26-year-old group tomorrow. I have no quarrel with talking in general about generational differences, but let's focus on something more meaningful and specific, which is exactly why I like your example above. Because there's no "generational difference" between someone born in 1964 vs someone born in 1965. Which makes it all the more annoying for the author to generalize about one of these labels. "Get the hell out of the way boomers, we can do it better" is another example of his being a wee bit ignorantly arrogant (or arrogantly ignorant, IDK). It's also rather the height of modern-day hubris to think we can have the final word on how our "generation" affected the world. People not even born will see us more clearly than we can see ourselves, and they will apply the label that sticks. They will know what generation was the bridge, and to what.

Rod D. Martin's avatar

That is certainly a legitimate problem. Nevertheless, "kids who grew up in the 1980s" are meaningfully different from "kids who grew up in the 1960s" or "kids who grew up in the 2010s". So while there's a blending at the margin, distinct cohorts clearly exist.

Bill and Neil assess the generational boundaries as lying at key defining events, which historically have happened roughly every 20-25 years like clockwork, going back to at least the 1400s. So for instance, the Boomers are usually defined as those born from 1946-1965, but they say that's wrong, that the proper dates are 1943 (when the first GI's returned and started having kids) to about 1960 (after which not only had that process ceased but also the world took a much darker turn from the post-war exuberance that went before it). Likewise, while the Census Bureau (no doubt at the behest of Madison Avenue, but that's a separate discussion) claims Millennials were born from 1981-1995 (oddly truncated, as they did to my generation), that's only half right, because while the beginning of the Reagan era certain was formative, the end of that period was pretty clearly 9/11. Everything after was different from everything before, especially with regard to parenting.

Anyway, it's a fascinating area.

Tom Wigand's avatar

There's a cadre referred to as "Generation Jones" - technically "Boomers," but born late 1950's into early 1960's. We're much like the paper-to-digital "X'ers" described by Mr. McKay - e.g., I had one of the original IBM PC's.

[I've noticed that YouTube recently has been popping up with "Generation Jones" videos describing our characteristics.]

In fact, I'd say we have more in common with the X'ers than the Boomers.

In my case, old enough to remember watching Andy Griffith and Leave it to Beaver (albeit often they were after-school reruns by the time I was a viewer). BUT came of age (junior high / high school / college) during the inflation / malaise / Watergate era / Vietnam defeat era of the 1970's.

We were exposed to the optimism of "The Space Race" and "New Frontier" - but those passed by our time. In many ways, Reagan struck a chord as unlike the "Boomers," we recognized that government is the problem, not the solution.

I would be willing to bet that one would find relatively few "Generation Jones" amongst the ranks of the spawn of The Frankfurt School / Alinsky / SDS, such as Bill Ayers and Hillary Clinton.

Kathleen Plesich's avatar

Wow! Perfectly stated. If only more left leaners would have enough humility to see Truth when it is so clear.

Steve's avatar

"The greatest of those, arguably, was the fall of the Soviet Union. Unlike the pampered generations that came behind us, my generation grew up in mortal fear of a nuclear war with the Soviets. One of our formative cultural experiences, for example, was when Red Dawn came out in 1984. It was a movie based on an exceptionally plausible scenario whereby the Iron Curtain expanded well into the Western hemisphere and the USA was largely cut off from our allies, and the commies invaded."

I (vaguely) recall reading an article (National Review, American Spectator?) about what to do when The Russians come.

Also

The Third World War: August 1985

John W. Hackett, John Strawson

First published May 1, 1978

The 70's were a bad time for America & The West. Stagflation, Bombings, Disco, poor job market.

Rod D. Martin's avatar

Couldn't agree more. And Hackett's books (because there was a sequel, The Third World War: The Untold Story, released in 1983, which updated a few things and also provided a haunting epilogue describing an alternate Soviet victory) were fascinating, and made a real difference in quarters that counted.

Even Gary Trudeau ("Doonesbury") called the 70s "a gallstone of a decade".

Steve's avatar

Thing is there was a time when Serious people were writing about this not just nutters. The Soviets were making A Move.

Rod D. Martin's avatar

They were indeed. We nearly lost the Cold War. God raised Reagan up at just the right moment.

Lebo Von Lo-Debar's avatar

"I’m a Gen Xer, and I’m unapologetic about it."

Hahahahahaha...

I’m a marketing term, and I’m unapologetic about it.

Hahahahahaha...

I am an American and I am not a democrat&republican Usefool Voter or a marketing term, but have fun with all those Usefool Voters and those marketing terms.

Gee, I wonder why the US of A is so fucked-up...marketing terms and Usefool Voters for $100 Alex.

Rod D. Martin's avatar

No one made you read it. So I guess I win.

Lebo Von Lo-Debar's avatar

Typical "marketing term" response...lol.

chalate's avatar

As a Boomer myself, I had to listen to similar diatribes about how lost, dumb, and pointless my life and all of the things I liked were by members of the Greatest Generation. Nevertheless, I strongly agree with the general premise of the article and have often wondered how or why so many people who firmly believe it's still 1970 have become entrenched in power. While experience is a valuable asset, looking to the Janet Yellins, Hillary Clintons, Jerome Powells and others of that ilk for leadership or new ideas is absurd. I myself have retired from medicine and no longer try to give advice to my son the doctor who has done brilliantly. I really wish all of the politician fossils desperately seeking relevance would step out of the way. The country and the world would certainly benefit.

Rod D. Martin's avatar

Yet another Trumpian miracle: while everyone else his age is clinging to power, he's launching Xers and Millennials by the dozens. He raised amazing kids who could build greater things than he had, and now he's doing the same thing for the nation. That's how it's supposed to work.

James's avatar

Remembered the song straight away. I pray we have taught the generations after us boomers, to have the moral compass needed to make the next 250 years even better 🙏

Rod D. Martin's avatar

We're doing our best.

John Stalmach's avatar

Glad I waited until after a workout to jump in.

As some commenters have noted, there was an attitude in the article: we're better than you. When you actually get into the details, each generation has offered something good, and allowed some bad things.

I belong to the early Boomers; I really think the Boomer generation should be split between those of us born between 1946 and 1955 and the group born later, 1956-1965. The older group, call us Boomers A, were raised by the "Greatest Generation," those who survived the Depression and WWII. Boomers B were raised by the younger cohort of that generation, who were born near the end of the Depression and during WWII.

Boomer A parents came out of WWII as winners, and expecting things to get better, which did happen. At the same time, they remembered all they had been through, and passed that down to us. It wasn't all sunshine and roses, I can guarantee you. But we stuck with it, and then after high school faced the Vietnam War. We handled that, then hit "affirmative action" in the 70s. But we have continued to push through; we're survivors.

The Boomer B group arrived after the prosperity had begun to settle in. They were the ones who became the Yuppies and Dinks, although a few of us older ones did as well.

I suspect, although I don't have any data to support it, that members of our older group were more likely to stay in church, or drop out for a while, then get back in when children came along, which also helped pass along the values of our parents' generation.

Bottom line: we as parents did our best to see that our children understood, and followed the long-standing values of a Christian nation. Those, our children, are the members of the X generation who have to be the ones to keep this country on the right track. So far, they're doing a pretty good job.

Rod D. Martin's avatar

I think the real issue here is that the Census Bureau has somewhat arbitrarily defined the generational boundaries, and thus introduced errors.

Bill Strauss and Neil Howe assess the generational boundaries as lying at key defining events, which historically have happened roughly every 20-25 years like clockwork, going back to at least the 1400s. So for instance, the Boomers are usually defined as those born from 1946-1965, but they (both Boomers) say that's wrong, that the proper dates are 1943 (when the first GI's returned and started having kids) to about 1960 (after which not only had that process ceased but also the world took a much darker turn from the post-war exuberance that went before it). I think the very latest one could reasonably argue for is 1962 (the Cuban Missile Crisis). After that, you're into GenX, and the commonalities are striking even at the margin.

Likewise, while the Census Bureau (no doubt at the behest of Madison Avenue, but that's a separate discussion) claims Millennials were born from 1981-1995 (oddly truncated, as they did to my generation), that's only half right, because while the beginning of the Reagan era certain was formative, the end of that period was pretty clearly 9/11. Everything after was different from everything before, especially with regard to parenting.

Circling back to your opening, did you really just say that a GenXer had an attitude? Wow, I've never heard anyone say that before. LOL

In any case, we collectively appreciate the confidence you express in your closing sentence. The world is at a great turning point, and a lot of that is going to rest on our shoulders. Many of us are very aware of the burden.

Rebecca Burgess's avatar

My sons are GenX, and I am happy to hand them the reins of our family's and our nation's future. Their halcyon childhood was provided by their father and me, based on principles and priorities we learned from our parents, in an atmosphere of permissive and promiscuous secular pressure, and a lifestyle crippled financially by runaway inflation. They have applied the same godly principles, (also shared by their wives) to their children's upbringing. Call both generations, in large part, a reluctant remnant. However, we rise to intervene for what is right, as witnessed by the Reagan years and their conservative congressional legacy. Recent primary results indicate that GenX is answering the call to redraw the maps, revive the Constitution, and rededicate our nation to God.